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« And now 'The Ed Hochuli Question': Does the NFL tests referees for steroids? | Main | The Tour de France 2008 is not finished: More testing for CERA EPO »

09/16/2008

Comments

US OF A

This entire site is full of crap. Better this site be renamed to Conspiracy nation.

Ohh sorry, where is my manners.

Hi haters, Bye haters.

Cheat or Beat

I think Jamaicans are taking this very personally because Usain Bolt running so well is a matter of national pride. So if someone questions that, it is all of a sudden saying that everyone hates Jamaica. And somehow this has turned into a U.S. versus Jamaica thing for them, just because Carl Lewis and others to question have been from the U.S. I believe this blog also had a story about a German runner who doubted Usain was clean, is his country "jealous" too? The issue is not about country, or about race, it is about the fact that we unfortunately cannot trust anything in sport that seems too good to be true. My web page has an article up questioning the feats of American Hero Michael Phelps as well. We have come to question the validity of any unbelievable performance in sports. Asking the question doesn't make someone a "hater".

yeti

So, Mr. Us of A, why are YOU reading this site? Did you actually read it, or just find an excuse to post an adolescent pout.

Paul Henry

Lewis has invited this attack given the large infusion of his personality and gut feelings in analysisng the performance of the young sprinter (as per the article). Further, Lewis is inconsistent, where he actually contrdicts himself in stating that athletes should not be compared with regards to the times they run. He hence indicates that emphasis should be placed on peformance and ability. It therefore, means he defeats his own point by questioning Bolt's move from 10.03 to 9.69 and negating the athlete's immense improvement in technique over the 100m and his innate stellar talent displayed from as young as 15.

Further, Lewis was so less vocal in questioning other athletes with just peculiar records. why didn,t he come out swinging about those?

Paul Henry

That doesn't really answer the 'testing question'. What are the results? And Dr. Elliott (right) appears to be a cheerleader for the athletes, not an objective observer.

This is a very good example of An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man"). What a paradox?

Steroid Nation

Considering your statements Paul Henry. The comments about Dr. Elliott were meant to reflect stories that he celebrates the Jamaican victories with the team. That's not bad, to say he is a cheerleader. However, the issue would be his role as a tester. In this case the fact Elliott is a supporter of the team is relevant to the issue as follows:

An independent testing agency should be involved in the testing, not a team physician, or a buddy of the athletes. We see how partisan officials or physicians can thwart objective testing in MLB baseball (USA) and in track and field in the 70s and 80s (again USA and other countries). This is why scientific studies should be double blind.

What was the chain of custody of the dope tests in Jamaica? What were the values?

All countries should employ objective testers and testing procedures..USA, Russia, UK, Jamaica. Until then records are suspect.

This saying Elliott is more a friend than an objective physician is not an ad hominem attack, but a cogent point.

The poster who said that the challenges to Bolt are mistaken as attacks on Jamaica is right. Don't condemn everything written as 'Jamaica hating'. Americans are certainly not haters of the Caribbean....seems to me that many of the biggest sports stars are Caribbean (David Ortiz, Manny, etc).

Thanks for the comment!

Horace Fletcher

The comments by Carl Lewis and others suggesting that Jamaica's Usain Bolt is probably taking drugs has incensed most Jamaicans. Bolt's exploits are not a flash in the pan as Carl suggests but has been many years in the making. He was a world Junior Champ at age 15 and ran in the olympics for Jamaica at age 17. For the first time in many years our athletes have taken their rightful place on top with the exclusion of drug cheaters only to be accused of the same thing by someone who himself failed three drug tests in 1988. There are so many famous American sprinters who have never been caught but the well publisized cases make it obvious that drug cheating is a big industry in the US. If it makes Americans feel better to say Jamaicans are on drugs well so be it but Carl could have gotten a bigger headline by telling us fools once and for all if he really cheated.

Steroid Nation

Mr. Fletcher:

You have set up a straw man. Lewis did not "suggest that Jamaica's Usain Bolt probably (was) taking drugs". He did intimate that the drug testing program was not state of the art. We have not yet seen anyone refute that claim using actual data.

Nico

There is no proper testing programme on the island?
The tests are being done by someone who we can't trust?
Their top athletes are not tested regulalry enough at the right times?

Whether or not these are true, in short, they are saying that the Jamaican athletes' times and medals canot be trusted because of the doubt over their drug free status.

So who are the Jamaicans in question? Bolt, of course, plus Veronica Campbell, Shelly Ann Fraser, Kerron Stewart, Melaine Walker, Asafa Powell and Sherone Simpson just off the top of my head.

So, in effect, this is a roundabout way of saying that they suspect these guys of being on drugs without actually saying so in so many words.

But, obviously, in the absence of proof, it is better to cast aspersions and insinuate and get people who either took drugs (Carl Lewis), facilitated a whole drug regime (Victor Conte) or who are just plain irrelevant (Tobias Unger) to pass comment about what goes on in that "little island".

What has always fascinated me though is that considering are regime we are led to believe is supposed to be so lax on drugs, how our "drug infested track regime" has been unable to produce any top notch athletes outside the sprints and the jumps. With the exception of Kenia Sinclair at the 800m, once you pass 400m there are hardly any Jamaicans.

Come on Jamaican PED producers, surely by next Olympics you can synthesise something for us to challenge the Kenyans?

That way we will not need the services of the drug supplier Victor Conte mentioned was working with elite Jamaican athletes even though he could not give any specific names.

GL

Americans are jealous. That's the only truth to this article.

StevieG

Dang! Daily, we read about American Athletes here, Cyclists, with the odd story on foreigners, Paralympics, foreigners, Sumo wrestlers but if there is an article on the Jamaican runners, watch out!

By the way, the Olympic Gold Medal Winner in the Men's Marathon, Wanjiru with conflicting stories probably had his own home in Kenya come under severe attack. http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Editorial/-/440804/470536/-/ql1e3xz/-/ I guess this topic is not pertinent in the Steroid Nation website.

But it is a horrible story and it shows, not just the Kenyans and not just by skin color either, some athletes and coaches have had to deal with these kinds of matters in parts of the world because of their popularity and wealth.

StevieG

Jamaica just hired a new coach for their National Soccer Team, John Barnes, I have followed them and I usually cheer for the Jamaican Nastional Soccer Team, the ReggaeBoyz as they are known, with their own website. I followed some of John Barnes career as well and he played for the England National Team. The ReggaeBoyz have gotten off to a bad start in World Cup qualifiers, they fired the old coach and bring in a new one, Barnes who is of Caribbean heritage I am rather sure. So people should not think, people questioning Bolt are anti-Jamaican as those who question others are anti-any-country.

CheatorBeat.com

I don't mind the national pride, and the staunch defense of one's heroes. What I do mind is attacking others, for writing an article, or asking a questions. By all means discuss the topic and voice your opinions, but the thoughts need not be so personal.

Paul Henry

Dear steroid nation: Mr. Lewis is upheld as an ambassador of the sport of track & filed. This means, Carl despite having the right to his opinion, is curtailed by his esteem as a respected track pundit and former athlete. This indicates that he is somewhat restricted of airing gut feeelings without cogent facts,like the number of tests Bolt has done through WADA and his improvemnet in technique.

Lewis' statements generally boils down to gut feelings capable of ruining the athlete's career. In his capaicity this is just not acceptable. Hence, if your journal can justify calling Mr. Elliot a 'cheerleader' then the Observer is well within its porfessional rights to attack the negative personality which Lewis has displayed.

Steroid Nation

Paul Henry:

Your point of view holds some logic. I can understand people who find Lewis' remarks distasteful. Given his status in the sport, he probably should be more reflective in his remarks.

As for Dr. Elliott, there is nothing but respect here. The one point would be that any testing procedure to be state of the art should be objective, and not supervised by local authorities.

I suspect we agree more than disagree.

thanks

Steroid Nation

BTW, Are American's jealous? Of course. It's part of being a fan.

Tanya Robinson

Carl Lewis's comments make me wonder why he thought these records were out of reach. Is it that he thinks (knows) the previous records weren't set by natural abilities. I do agree that Jamaica needs to have better testing programs so that a few in the sport wont have a reason to cast doubt on the third world nation who they think have more sophistication of hiding drugs. Michael Phelps was the hero of the games, yet no one has cast doubt on his accomplishment.

Tanya Robinson

Carl Lewis's comments make me wonder why he thought these records were out of reach. Is it that he thinks (knows) the previous records weren't set by natural abilities. I do agree that Jamaica needs to have better testing programs so that a few in the sport wont have a reason to cast doubt on the third world nation who they think have more sophistication of hiding drugs. Michael Phelps was the hero of the games, yet no one has cast doubt on his accomplishment.

bedduin

No one seems to have remembered that Carl took drugs....
:)
TWICE
and said it was mistake
TWICE
:)
Lets talk about Carl and not what Carl has said about anyone.
Can his and the USA Officials stand the light of day....

SHELLY GRAY

maybe steroid nation you need to look closer to home LASHAWN MERRITT

Ernest Ahweza

I am not only irritated by this but also offended. This article is clearly biased and very disturbing. Jamaica hasn't really accomplished a lot world wide in terms of Sports and now the one prodigy that comes out of Jamaica being harshly questioned by mean, jealous X-athletes really pisses me off. Bolt stated that he has no problem being tested ANYTIME!!! so AMERICA, DO U WANNA TEST HIM YOURSELF??? And what really pisses me off is that Lewis clearly knows that running technique, training equipment and strategies of the 21st century compared to that of the 80s has changed tremendously, but he still goes ahead to taunt and talk B.S about Bolt. I think Lewis clearly wants to be in the spotlight and remembered AGAIN smh

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