Gary Carter on Barry Bonds: "His head got twice the size; you figure it out"

MSNBC caught up to HOF catachers Johnny Bench and Gary Carter.  Their interviews reveal common misconceptions about PEDs and 'roids.  We understand that talking with ex-athletes creates interest; however asking these guys about PED use seems goofy.

Gary Carter gives Bonds credit, but then lowers a boom on Bonds' PED use.

A pair of Hall of Fame catchers who hit their share of home runs have different takes on Barry Bonds’ pursuit of Hank Aaron’s all-time record.

Johnny Bench and Gary Carter said Bonds’ chase for 755 is good for baseball, but they part ways when it comes to the role steroids may have played in his success.

“Barry’s going to break the record, and it’s phenomenal,” said Bench, who hit 389 home runs in his career with the Cincinnati Reds to rank 48th on the career list.

“To think he can walk over 200 times a year and do the things he does. And he was a Gold Glove outfielder. He didn’t do that by taking (steroids). He was just a great athlete,” he said.

Carter, an 11-time All-Star who hit 324 homers, said Bonds has had “a great career,” but questions if he could have gotten so big without performance-enhancing drugs.

“I saw him when he first broke in. He was a scrawny, skinny, 185-pound guy that had great talent. And then he turned himself into a freakin’ power hitter with, what, 245, 250 pounds, and his head got twice the size. So, you know, you figure it out,” he said.

“I know he likes to go to the gym. We all like to go to the gym. You just don’t get that big,” he said.

Carter is correct about Barry's weight increasing from a svelte 185 to a husky 245/250.  However Carter misfires about the head size growth.  There is little evidence HGH in an adult causes skull growth.  We attribute head size increase to hypertrophyof muscles of the neck and of the skull.  One does see an apparent increase in head size in PED users, however we believe it to be more of an illusion than an increase in the skull (which should stop growing in childhood)

Johnny Bench gives a different take on Bonds, however with fallacies too.  What does Bench mean by 'guilty'? PED testing doesn't determine guilt or innocence, nor are the same standards for court evidence adhered to when testing for steroid use.  Further, Bench changes the subject when he talks about plastic surgery or Tiger Wood's use of LASIK surgery, which are nonpharmacological issues.  Surgical procedures are not against the law nor the league rules.

Bench, who played in the same group with Carter this weekend at the American Century Celebrity Golf Tournament at Lake Tahoe, doesn’t understand why Bonds is being singled out when there are so many players who have been accused of taking steroids.

“They still haven’t found him guilty of anything,” Bench said.

“Have there been guys who are probably guilty? Probably so. And your wife has probably had a face lift or (breast implants) or a tummy tuck. We’re all trying to do performance enhancement every day. Tiger Woods got lasik surgery. Is that performance enhancing?”

“If I could take HGH, I would in a heartbeat because I want to live longer,” said Bench, who son. “I want to be as good as I can possibly be.”

Bench also falls for the HGH fallacy.  There is no data that HGH lengthens anyone's life. Who is his HGH guru?  He needs some corrections on this stuff.  Bench does however discuss steroids:

Bench admits that steroids give a player an advantage on the field.

“Of course it’s an advantage. And the bats are an advantage and they moved the ballpark fences in. These guys are strong. And hell, I hit 45 home runs that one year and I felt like I could have hit 60, but now the guys are so much stronger,” he said.

Bench, who played in 14 All-Star games, said it’s difficult to compare today’s players to those of the past because so many things have changed.

Bench elaborates on what many vintage MLB players think: their achievements are clearly undermined by many factors in favor of younger hitters.

“We’re second-class citizens now, our era. Our records are bygone,” he said.

“They’re making $15 million or $20 million a year. I made $11,000 my first year. I was rookie of the year and made $20,000, was MVP and made $40,000, was MVP again and made $80,000. So I’m only like $19,920,000 behind.

“There are guys out there who make two All-Star games and they’ve got their own planes flying back East. I’m trying to drive to Reno to get the 6:45 a.m. Delta so I can change planes and go to Orlando,” he said.

Comments

[sal]

Bud Selig must order a drug test today for barry bonds or else its too late for history sake

[John]

Great blog! Thanks. I am a gym rat myself. I can honestly say I never took steroids. That does not mean I would like to look ripped, etc. I recently had calf implant surgery and by accident I stumbled upon www.thepatientsadvantage.com. I used them when looking for a surgeon.
What I liked the most was that my profile remained anynomyous until I was ready to decide what to do. I received replies from four surgeons that met all the things I was looking for. I liked having that complete control without the sales pressure that some of these places can be known for.

If you are going to go down the cosmetic surgery road...better to be safe than sorry. This is a much better alternative than drugs. Check them out.

[johns an idiot]

Calf implants, are you being serious? If you are then you are a total douche. I can't believe there are doctors out there that actually do that stupid surgery. Oh wait, yes I can because all anybody cares about is money and looks. Silly me.

[BillT.]

This is just plain dumb. Contrary to your blanket assertion, there indeed is a ton of scientific evidence to indicate that human growth hormone can cause head growth in adults. There is a reason that God created Internet search engines. Use them. Plenty of published science for you to chew on.

For Pete's sakes, never mind the studies, just use your eyeballs. Tom Platz's cranium once started to take on the appearance of a gorilla wearing a blond wig. And it wasn't because he started to use a pillow with softer feathers. Watching Platz's melon change its shape was like watching William Hurt change his shape in the movie "Altered States." If Bonds has any semblance of acting ability, he should star in the remake. They could then say it's "based on a true story."

[GRG]

From The Nation:
Last commentator, you mentioned 'a ton of scientific studies'. Now that you brought that up, where are they? If you mention science, you need to produce the studies. You can't. They don't exist.

Acromegaly, the condition brought on generally by a pituitary tumor that produces HGH, can increase jaw size, foot size, and produce frontal bossing. However that condition is produced by a tumor that secretes 100 times physiological doses of HGH.

Again, there is no evidence that HGH given as an anabolic drug, increases skull size, jaw size, foot size or any other skeletal parameter. Cite me those studies. There are none.

There are a couple of studies that indicate in Turner's syndrome, several patients treated with HGH, do have increased foot and mandible (jaw) size. (http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/action/showFullText?submitFullText=Full+Text+HTML&doi=10.1046%2Fj.1365-2265.2003.01899.x)
However, that does not generalize to HGH given as a PED.

Although HGH secreting tumors cause acromegaly, there no proof that exogenous HGH causes skull size to increase. That is an error in scientific logic.

Because your eye tells you Platz and Bonds head sizes increased, you conclude that HGH increases head size, again a serious and silly error in logic.

What were the doses of HGH these athletes used? The time period? The other drugs they used? Do you have before and after measurements?

We don't believe it is dumb to draw the conclusions we drew. Our conclusions are backed up by the scientific literature. If you disagree, produce studies to the contrary that are directly pertaining to the use of HGH as a PED, in the correct dosages.

There are studies suggesting soft tissue growth in HGH doses used as a PED. For instance heart, and kidney can hypertrophy.

There are also suggestions that HGH may enhance certain tumor growth.

But no studies looking at skull size.

We kiddingly say 'thanks for the tip on the internet'.

:-)